Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 52
  1. #41
    Lizard is offline Senior Member Respected Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Among other reptiles
    Posts
    437

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pattyd View Post
    Well, I'm having some trouble with the 'main plot' in 666Satan as well. That is, despite reading several chapters several times, I still don't fully understand the links between 'matter', 'kabalah(s)' and the 'o-parts'. Although I believe it's due to the translations. I don't have the original texts (and even if I did, I wouldn't be able to read them =_=), but the translations seem to be quite poor. So I'm hoping some better trans will pop up some times soon, allowing me to understand the basic 'structure' of the 666Satan world better.
    1) Translators do scanlations for free. Yes they sacrifice they own free time and put big amount of work into something they dont have to do. And even more, 666 Satan is still quite underdog so every-one who is willing to translate it should be highly valued.
    2) For some reason, you are the first one that complain about the quality of their scanlations. Most of people here think that they do really good job in translating chapters. So I guess the problem is more in you than in translators
    3) From points 1) and 2) is clearly visible, that you, dear sir, are nothing else than ungrateful bastard that should just shut the fuck up and go rape himself, far away from this forum. Thank you


  2. #42
    child_of_serenity's Avatar
    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    In the depths of a vast swamp...
    Posts
    2,321

    Default

    Dear Noob,

    Please be thankfull of the scanners and the translators they are doing a service for you for free. And they do a very good job. They should be praised not flamed for taking to long.

    Your Mod,

    Serenity

  3. #43
    pattyd is offline Junior Member Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Dear god, am I getting flamed here or what? And a moderator even agrees with it? What on earth is going on here?

    Lizard, Ayato_kamina and moderator child_of_serenity, may I ever so kindly point out to you that you are quite making a fool of yourself?
    1) I never sad I wasn't glad there were some translations available. I said I questioned their quality.
    2) Being glad that translations are available does not mean you should shut up if the translations are low quality.
    3) Whether you like it or not, the English in the translations is indeed poor. The sentences often are mixed up, have bad grammar and wrong spelling. So can you really blame me for hoping someone will make better translations?

    I'm not the only one to think that way. I'm just the first to actually voice that opinion here. And the fact that three people including a mod flamed me after the fact immediately explained why that is the case. If you don't agree, fine. My opinion does not require your approval. If you flame me for it, it's your problem.

    And Serenity, may I remind you that I merely stated my opinion in rather neutral words? Did I call them idiots? Did I call them morons? Did I call them illiterates? No I did not. I did not insult them nor drag them down. I merely stated the fact that the English in the translations is quite poor, and that I was hoping a better translation will come soon.
    And who ever said anything about the time they take to translate? I most certainly didn't mention anything about time.
    Last edited by pattyd; 11-06-2006 at 05:04 AM.

    Where Fantasy and Reality become One

  4. #44
    Lizard is offline Senior Member Respected Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Among other reptiles
    Posts
    437

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pattyd View Post
    Dear god, am I getting flamed here or what? And a moderator even agrees with it? What on earth is going on here?

    Lizard, Ayato_kamina and moderator child_of_serenity, may I ever so kindly point out to you that you are quite making a fool of yourself?
    Yes you are getting flamed. Surprised? Insulting a group of people that sacrifice their own free time to make translation, that are highly valued for majority of people on this forum, definetly isnt smartest thing to do. And besides both child_of_serenity and Ayato_kamina (and in the end, me too, my post wasnt harsh enough to be stoptazmo flame standart) were more polite than you deserved.

    Quote Originally Posted by pattyd View Post
    1) I never sad I wasn't glad there were some translations available. I said I questioned their quality.
    2) Being glad that translations are available does not mean you should shut up if the translations are low quality.
    3) Whether you like it or not, the English in the translations is indeed poor. The sentences often are mixed up, have bad grammar and wrong spelling. So can you really blame me for hoping someone will make better translations?
    Sorry but "being glad" and "questioning their quality" are sentences that negate each other. You simply cannot do both. If you dont like the grammar, than meh...thats your problem...Strangely I never saw a scanlations of 666 Satan that would confuse things for me, thanks to the bad grammar and/or mixed sentences. And it seems most people here didnt saw that bad scanlations either. I repeat: the problem might be in you....

    Quote Originally Posted by pattyd View Post
    I'm not the only one to think that way. I'm just the first to actually voice that opinion here. And the fact that three people including a mod flamed me after the fact immediately explained why that is the case. If you don't agree, fine. My opinion does not require your approval. If you flame me for it, it's your problem. .

    So far the only one that voiced that opinion here is you.And scanlators for 666 Satans are here for some time, without someone disliking their work...And no the reason for "flame" isnt your opinion, but the way you presented it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pattyd View Post
    And Serenity, may I remind you that I merely stated my opinion in rather neutral words? Did I call them idiots? Did I call them morons? Did I call them illiterates? No I did not. I did not insult them nor drag them down. I merely stated the fact that the English in the translations is quite poor, and that I was hoping a better translation will come soon.
    And who ever said anything about the time they take to translate? I most certainly didn't mention anything about time..
    Blaming the translation team that you dont understand parts of the story(that actually even werent explained yet...) thanks to their bad translation is far from neutral. Although it is better written and far less n00bish than for example:"omfg their scanz sooo suckz that I dunno about O-parts, Ancient empirez and Kabbalah, da translatorz suckz tuuu" the basic meaning is the same.
    Last edited by Lizard; 11-06-2006 at 08:38 AM.


  5. #45
    pattyd is offline Junior Member Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Sorry but "being glad" and "questioning their quality" are sentences that negate each other. You simply cannot do both.
    I am glad healthcare is around. At the same time I question the quality of healthcare. Does that negate each other? No it does not. It simply means that I think it needs improvement.
    Unlike what you seem to think, the world is not black and white. Being glad about something is not equal to thinking its perfect. Being unhappy about something does not mean you think its total crap.

    At the same time, does wishing for a better healthcare make me ungrateful? Nope. Everyone benefits from a better healthcare and you should always strive for improvement. Does wishing for better translations make me ungrateful? Nope. Everyone would benefit from a better translation and translation teams and readers should always strive for the best translations possible. I most definitely would not be helping them if I went around trumpeting that their translations are perfect and should not receive any word of criticism. And yes, that is a direct complaint at your address.

    If you dont like the grammar, than meh...thats your problem...Strangely I never saw a scanlations of 666 Satan that would confuse things for me, thanks to the bad grammar and/or mixed sentences. And it seems most people here didnt saw that bad scanlations either. I repeat: the problem might be in you....
    Then I can only assume that either you don't give a damn about spelling and grammar, are not interested in the deeper storylines or never actually read 666 Satan in the first place.

    Now, I have chapter 44 open anyway, so lets find a nice sentence in there which illustrate the English used throughout the chapters.

    "yes... the foundation of the earliest energy of this world... in order words, in the inner parts of this universe, the energy of big bang... transform into the shape of everything, dissolve, split up"

    Is this sentence (or sentences) written in good English? No, it is not. If it was just a sentence here and there it wouldn't matter. The 'problem', as said, is that this is the type of English used throughout the chapters. Poor English leads to an increased number of possible interpretations and thus to confusion.
    You say you haven't had any trouble understanding the story? Well, your comment of 'that you dont understand parts of the story(that actually even werent explained yet...)' makes it clear to me you either entirely missed the vital parts or just don't care about them. Just because you don't regard a piece of text or clue as important, don't expect others feel the same about it. Chapter 44 is one of the chapters which provides quite a bit of information about the connections between Kabbalah, matter, energy and O-parts. In recent chapters, more information has turned up.

    So far the only one that voiced that opinion here is you.
    Indeed. If you want people to voice their opinion more quickly, perhaps you should stop flaming them over opinion differences.

    And scanlators for 666 Satans are here for some time, without someone disliking their work...
    Wrong. Without someone voicing any negative opinions, and I can only feel sorry for the translators. Unless they are like you, taking any opinion differing from their own as a personal offence, tips from readers to improve their English might have improved the quality of their scanlations. How is that bad?
    I really wonder. Which of the two of us is worse? You for the "I forever love you and your work and think you're perfect" despite the poor English, or me for the "Yes, a translations ... I wish the English was better though".

    Blaming the translation team that you dont understand parts of the story(that actually even werent explained yet...) thanks to their bad translation is far from neutral. Although it is better written and far less n00bish than for example:"omfg their scanz sooo suckz that I dunno about O-parts, Ancient empirez and Kabbalah, da translatorz suckz tuuu" the basic meaning is the same.
    ... ... ...
    Two days ago, my lunch tasted terrible. I told my corridor mate it tasted terrible. Does that mean that I blame the lunch lady for it? Does that mean I blame the food supplier for it? No. It simply means the lunch tasted terrible.
    You and I are (very) different. Perhaps the feel need to blame is one of those differences.
    I don't feel the need to blame anyone. Not in the case of my bad lunch or the poor translations (healthcare is a different matter :P). It would be insane to suggest they are not doing their best. Why would they make effort to make something worse if it takes less effort to make something better?

    It is just as unreasonable to say that poor wording, poor grammar and poor spelling will not lead to confusion.

    It is also foolish to suggest that sentences such as "because all the living things want to obtain large amount of energy, they all obtained DNA that is programmed because of this basic characteristic, people began to fight and battle again in order to obtain better-quality of energy" are correct English. (chapter 44, file JOJO_093.jpg).
    They are not correct English, thus they (can) lead to confusion. It's as simple as that.

    Yes you are getting flamed. Surprised? Insulting a group of people that sacrifice their own free time to make translation, that are highly valued for majority of people on this forum, definetly isnt smartest thing to do. And besides both child_of_serenity and Ayato_kamina (and in the end, me too, my post wasnt harsh enough to be stoptazmo flame standart) were more polite than you deserved.

    …And no the reason for "flame" isnt your opinion, but the way you presented it...
    Yes, very surprised. I expected to get some rude comments, some calm comments and some agreeing comments. I expected a calm and mature conversation. What I get are a couple of kids going berserk turning an ‘I wish there were better translations’ into an ‘Damn those translators, they are so freaking stuuuupid and they suuuuuck!’. Don’t make an elephant out of a mouse.

    insulting a group of people that sacrifice their own free time to make translations
    What a noble way to put it.
    Do you see that banner in my url? It's a website I made and run. Aside from college I 'sacrifice' 25 hours per week working on that site. Programming, drawing, writing, Everything... Now, every now and then it happens a member posts about a spelling mistake or two on the forums. Do you know what I do when that happens?

    I correct the mistake.

    Why? Simply. I'm not stupid enough to take the spelling errors or bug reports for personal attacks. Even better. It pleases me. Why? Two reasons; it means there is one mistake less on the site and it shows my members care enough tell me about them.

    So, let’s turn it around. Are you doing the translators a favor by not telling them about their poor English and telling off other people for doing so? Despite the fact that errors cannot be fixed unless they are known? Even though this results in a lower quality translation despite al their hard work and all the hours they sacrificed for it? All their hard work, all the hours they poured into it. Wouldn’t it be much better if they could look back at it, years from now, and proudly hold up great translations thanks to the help of their readers?
    And now they will be forced to look back and say “Gross… What were we thinking! What is up with this sentence? And that sentence!” Don’t you think that’s far worse than saying it needs improvement?

    Yes you are getting flamed… …And besides both child_of_serenity and Ayato_kamina (and in the end, me too, my post wasnt harsh enough to be stoptazmo flame standart) were more polite than you deserved.
    I don’t know what flaming you had to see, read and/or endure in the past. However, your grudge against ‘flamers of translators’ is not my problem. It is yours.
    Last edited by pattyd; 11-06-2006 at 01:06 PM.

    Where Fantasy and Reality become One

  6. #46
    Lizard is offline Senior Member Respected Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Among other reptiles
    Posts
    437

    Default

    @pattyd: First of all... I considered even my previous post far too long for just an off-topic semi-flame argument (if you ever wondered, no a topic that is there to discuss simmiliarity between 666 Satan and Naruto isnt best place to talk about quality of translations....) Your repsonse is just.... far too long
    So I will oversimplify it and ignore most of your post, becouse so or so it is there just to negate things I said in my previous post (something that can be done with little twisting practically forever, by both sides) and place some better or worse hidden arogant/sarcastic/ironic remarks about my opinions, my way of thinking, experiences, etc...

    Your point: I am grateful for scanlations, however I think they translations are of poor quality. Also saying my criticizm and need for better translations is harmless or even positive...

    My response: Although poor grammar, it is still on level in which I can without difficulties understand the story(and for a lack of complaints from other members it seems that I belong to majority). You are on internet dammit, this isnt place where you should expect Oxford-level grammar. Constructive criticizm is always something positive. Saying that you cannot understand the plot becouse translations are poor isnt constructive critizm, it can be even taken as an insult (and I did took it that way). Wishing for better translation team...Bah as you wish, good luck about that, however most of us dont have complaints about current one.


  7. #47
    child_of_serenity's Avatar
    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    In the depths of a vast swamp...
    Posts
    2,321

    Default

    Dear Lizard,

    Here's the thing. You don't complain about the quality of of the scans. If you think the quality is poor and if you feel like it should be improved. Then you join a scan team and you help improve the quality. Other wise you suck it up and join the slackers who just leach off of the generosity of others.

    It takes several hours of time and effort of several people to make scans that are "High Quality". Simply cleaning one page of any manga takes a good 1 to 2 hours.

    I was not Flaming you but the general public who thinks hey I'm just criticizing because they aren't doing a good job or they are taking to long or the quality is poor is constructive. Such criticisms are not constructive but actually pain for those trying to bring you scans.

    I also don't want to have another debacle where the scanlators get highly offended and just start pushing 666 on the back burner more.

    There are threads where they ask for help and they give links for where to contact or you could always join kaya in his quest to bring you guys just translations all the sooner, and even start to help him start a scanlator group.

    So what I'm saying is your criticism is not not harmless and is far from positive, because you aren't doing anything to help the scanlators (even though you think you are). Why don't you become a proffer or just part of one of the teams. I'm sure they could use the help.

    Sincerely,

    Serenity

    PS: Please, if anyone is willing or has the extra time help the scanlators by offering to be a proofer, type setter, scanner, editor, translator, or by doing anything you can to help.

  8. #48
    pattyd is offline Junior Member Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    13

    Default

    You are on internet dammit, this isnt place where you should expect Oxford-level grammar.
    I never did. That once again is your misinterpretation. I said I expected improvement.

    Constructive criticizm is always something positive. Saying that you cannot understand the plot becouse translations are poor isnt constructive critizm, it can be even taken as an insult (and I did took it that way).
    Saying that I don't understand the plot due to the poor translations is not critizism or insult. You twisted it into that. All it did was link the fact 'I don't understand the plot details' to the fact 'the translation is poor'.

    So I will oversimplify it and ignore most of your post, becouse so or so it is there just to negate things I said in my previous post (something that can be done with little twisting practically forever, by both sides)
    If you flame me out of the difference in opinions, your grudge, your misinterpretations and your aggression, don't blame me for pointing your errors to you. Discussion, however poor the reason for the discussion may be, cannot progress unless the arguments are shown invalid or counter arguments are presented.

    and place some better or worse hidden arogant/sarcastic/ironic remarks about my opinions, my way of thinking, experiences, etc...
    Once again, you seem to interpret everything as a personal attack on your being. Once again, this is your problem and yours alone. If you cannot deal with others pointing out your errors, their views and opinions clearly different from yours, don't flame them, don't blame them.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Dear Lizard,

    Here's the thing. You don't complain about the quality of of the scans. If you think the quality is poor and if you feel like it should be improved. Then you join a scan team and you help improve the quality. Other wise you suck it up and join the slackers who just leach off of the generosity of others.

    It takes several hours of time and effort of several people to make scans that are "High Quality". Simply cleaning one page of any manga takes a good 1 to 2 hours.

    I was not Flaming you but the general public who thinks hey I'm just criticizing because they aren't doing a good job or they are taking to long or the quality is poor is constructive. Such criticisms are not constructive but actually pain for those trying to bring you scans.

    I also don't want to have another debacle where the scanlators get highly offended and just start pushing 666 on the back burner more.

    There are threads where they ask for help and they give links for where to contact or you could always join kaya in his quest to bring you guys just translations all the sooner, and even start to help him start a scanlator group.

    So what I'm saying is your criticism is not not harmless and is far from positive, because you aren't doing anything to help the scanlators (even though you think you are). Why don't you become a proffer or just part of one of the teams. I'm sure they could use the help.

    Sincerely,

    Serenity

    PS: Please, if anyone is willing or has the extra time help the scanlators by offering to be a proofer, type setter, scanner, editor, translator, or by doing anything you can to help.
    I assume that post is aimed at me :P.

    I simply disagree. Allow me to explain why.
    I think healthcare needs improvement. Does that mean I should join the public workers in healthcare? No it does not. It simply states my opinion with the trust that it will improve. If I really though the translators sucked and deserve to be dragged down, I would have said so directly.
    I know that making translations is a lot of work. I also know that writing good translations for a chapter can easily take up to four,five or six hours. Sometimes even more. I also know that it feels fantastic to present good translations. I also know it feels bad to look back at something you thought you did a great job on, only to find out it wasn't as good as you thought it was.
    Of course, this is a personal view on the matter and I can understand your fear of them getting hurt over it. I just disapprove of the replies made to my post.
    Although it clearly was unintended, I felt offended by your remark. You called me an ingratefull noob out of the assumptions that I was flaming, ingratefull and a noob, a score of 0 out 3. It is hard to not offended by it at all.
    And you are dragging in a 'time' factor I didn't even mention . Fortunately (though unfortunate in the light of the posts above), I'm the kind of person who would prefer taking them twice as long to if that meant the quality improved. Don't put your words into my mouth.
    If the translators feel offended by someone stating the fact that the English in their translations is poor, it is regrettable, but nothing more than that. It simply means that saying anything even remotely negative about them becomes a taboo. Truthfully, I put more faith in them then that. To make things worse, I think the time factor you mentioned, probably due to the chattalk-flaming people which got Lizard pissed, is the reason why the translations are quite poor. Wouldn't it be much better if they took their time and release better translations?

    About helping them. Has the 666 Satan team considered posting their translations of the scripts on the Stoptazmo forums before they release the chapters with the intention of discussing the translations themselves? I doubt I have the time to help them with every single chapter, so I wouldn't make a good full-time member of their team. Their release rate is too high for that :P. However, if they post their translations on the forums in advance asking the members to help out, I am sure there are people who are willing help out, especially because 666 Satan is quite popular. That way, multiple people can discuss the best ways to translate the sentences which, for other manga, has resulted in great translations. And yes, you can expect I would regularly join such a thread.

    There currently is a thread about chapter 61 with the trans, but I doubt it was put up to discuss the translations itself, so I feel kindof reluctant to start posting suggestions in there. Doing so while not asked would indeed be rude.

    And providing translations and an option to discuss them in advance would also negate some of the people who might critizise them over a slow release rate. It is hard to critizise something if you can read their progress, as well as a translation giving you an idea of what is going on in the chapter in advance.
    Of course, experiences on arlongpark.net have shown that such threads should not become threads to discuss the chapters themselves.

    ------------------------------------

    The truth is, neither of us wanted to start a debacle. Which makes these last few posts even more ironic. Simply said, our views differ completely. It's regretable it got out of hand like this.

    Enough is enough.
    This is over.
    Last edited by pattyd; 11-07-2006 at 05:43 AM.

    Where Fantasy and Reality become One

  9. #49
    child_of_serenity's Avatar
    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    In the depths of a vast swamp...
    Posts
    2,321

    Default

    No, but they have post links scan teams for you to help them if you so chose. Have you seen those? They are at the top of the page. Nice and stickied.

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?board=103.0

    http://www.stoptazmo.com/showthread.php?t=12199

    And the fun thread it came from.

    And no that post wasn't directed to you. It was directed to the entire forum.

    Also, when I post in letter form it is usually for the entire forum not for a person.

    We have enough people complain about 57-58(which doesn't make any difference), because at this time simply don't exist on the internet.

  10. #50
    Chakra_demon is offline Member Frequent Poster
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    44

    Default

    ...and in conclusion to the previous posts...

    S6 is way better than Naruto!

 

 
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
vBulletin Skin by: ForumThemes.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162